T-Prime asks:
I really like your Roll Initiative Last video, but how could you use this with the alternative initiative checks from Pathfinder?
I often get asked questions like this. Here’s another one:
D. asks:
I’ve been using your Dice of Destiny system for years. It revolutionized my Vampire game! But now I see that you’re talking about D&D a lot. How does that work?
There’s also a more hostile variety where someone will, for example, see me talking about perception-type skill checks, and snarkily denounce me for “only playing playing D&D.”
This is, of course, hilarious. Ironically the angriest folk often seem to be those who have played D&D and literally one other RPG and have concluded that any points of difference between the two represents some fundamental divide between D&D and every other RPG in existence.
But the point is, of course, that RPGs do differ from each other. There are a lot of skills and techniques – particularly at the macro-level (like scenario structures) – that you can transfer from one game to another, but there are others that can’t survive the transition. This is particularly true when you get down in the trenches and are finessing how you handle individual action resolutions to best effect. (Consider, for example, Rulings in Practice: Sanity Checks, which is obviously only relevant in systems that have sanity check mechanics.)
So, for example, how can you use Roll Initiative Last in a system like Pathfinder where the initiative check made for each encounter will vary depending on how each encounter gets started (and what individual characters are doing)?
Well… you don’t. Compared to systems where you can Roll Initiative Last, those systems are trading a certain amount of efficiency for the benefit of more accurately modeling different types of encounters (and also likely encouraging players to explore different ways of initiating encounters).
Similarly, Technoir eschews initiative entirely. Instead, during a confrontation, the only rule is that everybody must take an action before anyone is allowed to take a second action, and the order in which those actions are taken is left up to the discretion of the GM. Here, again, efficiency is sacrificed, but with the benefit of both flexibility and seamless action scene transitions.
In the Infinity RPG, on the other hand, the PCs always go first, but the GM can “steal initiative” by spending Heat points. Here the system essentially “bakes in” the benefits of Roll Initiative Last (since you can launch straight into any encounter without pausing for initiative rolls), but instead of Technoir’s completely open flexibility, it plugs the whole thing into fueling the Momentum & Heat economy that’s a core pillar of the game.
Are these trade-offs worth it? That’s ultimately up to you and your group. (And what’s right for one game won’t necessarily be right for another.)
Of course, these other systems will also have expert-level techniques that can’t be used in D&D. For example, in games like Technoir and Infinity where you need to be able to answer the question, “Who hasn’t gone yet this round?”, it’s usually a good idea to keep a list of combatants and check them off as they each take their actions. In a system that uses hot-potato initiative (where, at the end of their turn, each player decides which character is going to take their turn next), it becomes essential to figure out how to make sure everyone at the table has access to this information.
(And that’s an example of a trade-off I don’t like: The extra bookkeeping necessary to make sure everyone knows who’s going to next, plus the extra decision points, plus the analysis paralysis from not being able to plan your turn ahead of time creates a huge drag in actual play and is just not worth whatever marginal benefits the hot-potato initiative is supposedly providing.)
ADAPTING TECHNIQUES
Sometimes, though, a technique that doesn’t work in a new system can be adapted so that it does.
For example, let’s go back to Pathfinder initiative checks. You can’t pre-roll initiative at the end of each encounter because you can’t be certain which type of initiative check each character will be making.
Could you just have everyone pre-roll every type of initiative check and then just use the appropriate set of checks? Probably not. Even if you limited this to just the most common initiative checks (Perception, Stealth, etc.), the extra hassle of collecting all that info and the time spent on wasted rolls probably isn’t worth it. Plus, you’ll still need to sort those variable results into the final initiative order.
Maybe you could use secret rolling to achieve a similar effect? You’ll need to be on your toes, but if you’re good at multitasking you might be able to get all those initiative checks made when it becomes clear a fight is about to happen but before things actually kick off. The trick, of course, is that this is no longer easy to pull off, and you might run into problems with players who don’t like losing the illusory sense of “agency” that comes with rolling their own dice.
Digital tools might help, though. You could imagine one that lets you very quickly select the appropriate skill for each combatant and then click a single button that would roll and organize the entire initiative order for you.
Alternatively, you can actually tweak the mechanics to achieve a desired effect or efficiency.
As an extreme example, you could just drop the entire concept of alternative initiative checks and go back to having just one type of initiative check. (You’d do this if the trade-off of efficiency for modeling different encounter approaches wasn’t worth it to you.)
As a less extreme example, you might learn that your group is overwhelmingly likely to make initiative checks of a particular type. (Probably Perception-based initiative.) So now you can have everyone Roll Initiative Last with that check type, but rule that if an alternative approach is taken (Stealth, for example), then a new roll will be made and supersede the pre-roll.
Would that work? Maybe. But in some groups you might discover that this creates some weird metagaming. (“I’d sneak up on them, but then I’d lose that great Perception initiative check I made!”) You could combat that with secret checks (but now with easier bookkeeping!).
Or you could lean into it by instead ruling that the new initiative check will only supersede the original check if it’s better than the original check. This would, in turn, encourage players to always find an alternative approach to initiating encounters than whatever the default approach is. Is that desirable? That’s a question only you and your group can answer.
FINESSE TECHNIQUES
Taking a slightly broader view here, a lot of what we’re talking about here are finesse techniques: These are the subtle little differences in how we use, interpret, present, implement, and execute the mechanics of an RPG. (And also non-mechanical interactions!)
These techniques can have a huge impact on the quality of a game session, but a surprisingly small amount of GMing advice talks about this stuff. Perhaps this is because such techniques can be so situational in their use. Whatever the case may be, I think you can reap huge rewards by making a point of really thinking not just about the rules you’re using, but how you’re using them.
For another example of finesse techniques, check out Random GM Tips: The Numbers That We Say.
