Having concluded that mid-dungeon rests should generally be risky and usually require effort in order to pull off successfully, how should we handle spells or other special abilities that make these rests easier to achieve? Some of these – particularly rope trick and Leomund’s tiny hut – seem tailor-made to make risk-free rests effortless!
In handling these spells in play, there are a couple general principles I think are useful to keep in mind:
First, we’ll want to think about how these spells fit into our procedure. Much like our response to a fireball spell shouldn’t be, “Well, I guess this means we don’t need the combat system any more!” our response to PCs using spells to achieve safer rests shouldn’t be to throw out our procedures for handling risky rests.
Second, it will help to remember that spells cast to increase the likelihood of a successful rest are, in fact, resources being spent. (Even if spells can be ritually cast, they’re still chewing up a prepared spell for most classes.) This is particularly true if such strategies require multiple spells to be used. (For example, using pass without trace to conceal the trail leading to an invisible rope trick while using alarm to prevent ambushes.)
In concert, these principles should make us wary of a kneejerk desire to “nerf” such spells. It’s easy to slip into thinking that the goal is to interrupt and disrupt the PCs’ rests, and thus become frustrated with strategies that successfully allow them to rest.
But if we return to thinking about an expedition model, in which players strategically choose how to spend your resources in order to maximize their rewards, this is exactly what we want.
On the other hand, if there’s a strategy which is costing them no resources at all and always results in successful rests, those are the ones we’ll want to interrogate closely and figure out how to handle better. (Or modify mechanically in order to balance them.)
LEOMUND’S TINY HUT
As our first example, let’s look at Leomund’s tiny hut, a 3rd-level spell which lasts for 8 hours:
A 10-foot-radius immobile dome of force springs into existence around and above you and remains stationary for the duration. The spell ends if you leave its area.
Nine creatures of Medium size or smaller can fit inside the dome. The spell fails if its area includes a larger creature or more than nine creatures.
Creatures and objects within the dome when you cast this spell can move through it freely. All other creatures and objects are barred from passing through it. Spells and other magical effects can’t extend through the dome or be cast through it. The atmosphere inside the space is comfortable and dry, regardless of the weather outside.
Until the spell ends, you can command the interior to become dimly lit or dark. The dome is opaque from the outside, of any color you choose, but it is transparent from the inside.
How does this spell affect our dungeon rest procedure?
By and large, it doesn’t.
The procedure determines whether or not the bad guys locate the PCs. And whether they find the PCs or “just” a mysterious dome of force energy that wasn’t there yesterday, it doesn’t really change anything.
Leomund’s tiny hut makes the PCs perfectly secure… but also perfectly detectable. (You could even argue that an immobile dome of force is probably more difficult to conceal in many circumstances, perhaps granting disadvantage to their Stealth checks.)
What I’ve discovered, in practice, is that this creates a really interesting dilemma for the PCs when the monsters discover their position: Do you remain within to finish your rest, while allowing the monsters to fetch reinforcements and set up preparations to assault you as soon as the spell drops? Or do you disrupt your rest and leap out to deal with the threat?
The challenge for the DM, in my opinion, is to create varied and interesting threats. These will be dependent on the particular circumstances of the dungeon, but can be almost limitless in variety.
For example, in one instance the NPCs in my game pulled a Cask of Amontillado, simply walling up the room that the PCs had placed their dome in. Others have built bonfires over the dome and drenched them in oil. Triggering a cave-in to bury the dome can also be a really interesting option.
Of course, you can almost always default to the bad guys fetching reinforcements, bringing into play the principles of running an active dungeon that we discussed in Part 1. This can easily be the most dangerous option for the PCs to wait out, as a large part of strategically conquering an active dungeon is NOT allowing all the denizens of the dungeon to attack you at the same time.
As a result, in addition to simple fight now / fight later dynamics, I’ve also frequently seen tiny hut dilemmas result in tense negotiations.
My point with all this is that the tiny hut, while it gives the PCs a lot of advantages, doesn’t actually negate the logistics of seeking rest in the dungeon. In fact, the spell creates the opportunity for incredibly cool moments and incredibly difficult choices that otherwise wouldn’t exist.
Nerf Note: If you want to nerf this spell, consider reverting a major change that was made to the spell with 2nd Edition (which inflated the number of creatures which could fit inside the hut) and 3rd Edition (which inflated it again to the current total of nine). In 1st Edition, it could only hold six man-sized creatures.
This makes the spell useful for a PC-only adventuring party, but the minute you add hirelings, allies, or just some mounts, the utility of the spell rapidly degrades.
ROPE TRICK
Next up, let’s consider rope trick, a 2nd-level spell that lasts for 1 hour:
You touch a length of rope up to 60 feet long. One end of the rope then rises into the air until the whole rope hangs perpendicular to the ground. At the upper end of the rope, an invisible entrance opens to an extradimensional space that lasts until the spell ends.
The extradimensional space can be reached by climbing to the top of the rope. The space can hold as many as eight Medium or smaller creatures. The rope can be pulled up into the space, making the rope disappear from view outside the space.
Attacks and spells can’t cross through the entrance into or out of the extradimensional space, but those inside can see out of it as if through a 3-foot-by-5-foot window centered on the rope. Anything inside the extradimensional space drops out when the spell ends.
Although a lower level spell with a much shorter duration, rope trick, in my opinion, can actually be far more effective in gaining a secure rest than Leomund’s tiny hut.
Once again looking at our dungeon rest procedure, the key thing to note is that the rope trick is a very good way of creating an effective hiding place almost anywhere in the dungeon.
However, let’s consider the key feature of the spell: The dimensional portal created by the rope trick is invisible, but does not actually disappear.
This means that NPCs can enter the portal. (And it only takes a few for the whole thing to collapse.) This might be the result of them tracking the PCs’ to the portal entrance. Particularly tall creatures might also just stumble straight into it if the PCs aren’t careful in where they place the entrance.
The other key thing is that the spell doesn’t block sound. This is particularly significant in 5th Edition because of how the game handles invisibility: Being invisible makes it possible to hide, but doesn’t even grant advantage on Stealth checks (including the Stealth checks built into our dungeon rest procedure).
In addition to assaulting a rope trick, of course, the NPCs might also choose to besiege it using tactics similar to those described for a tiny hut above.
Nerf Note: A really key limitation of rope trick from previous editions was that you couldn’t put extradimensional spaces inside other extradimensional spaces, preventing anyone carrying a bag of holding from entering a rope trick. Given the ubiquitous utility of a bag of holding, this creates a meaningful strategic dilemma: Be able to carry a lot more loot out of the dungeon OR take advantage of the respite of a rope trick. You can’t do both.
MORDENKAINEN’S MAGNIFICENT MANSION
Mordenkainen’s magnificent mansion is a 7th level spell that lasts for 24 hours:
You conjure an extradimensional dwelling in range that lasts for the duration. You choose where its one entrance is located. The entrance shimmers faintly and is 5 feet wide and 10 feet tall. You an any creature you designate when you cast the spell can enter the extradimensional dwelling as long as the portal remains open. You can open or close the portal if you are within 30 feet of it. While closed the portal is invisible.
There is more to the description of this spell, but this first paragraph contains the bits relevant to our discussion.
The key thing to note is that Mordenkainen’s magnificent mansion largely bypasses most of the strategies we discussed for tiny huts and rope tricks: Once the portal is closed, it blocks sound and cannot be accidentally passed through. And it’s invisible, so the whole thing will not be easily discovered by patrolling monsters.
Its only Achilles’ heel is that the entrance to the mansion will still be readily apparent to any creatures with truesight (or other means of seeing the invisible).
How much of a problem is this?
Well, probably not that much. This spell is the same level as teleport, which provides an entirely different way of securing a safe rest before resuming your dungeon exploration from the exact point you left off (by, obviously, teleporting out of the dungeon and then teleporting back in).
This isn’t an accident: At the levels where these spells become available, the game is shifting away from dungeon expeditions being the focus of play. (This is not always reflected in published adventures, but nonetheless remains true in the game’s design.) Teleport away? Hide in a magic mansion? Use passwall (albeit nerfed in more recent editions) or transmute rock to reengineer the dungeon? From a design standpoint, that’s fine, because at these higher tiers of play, the game has (or at least should) move beyond the low-key logistics of dungeon delving.
This was an unexpected Part 2. Thanks to the Alexandrites on my Discord, particularly Pooserville, for suggesting it.
I wonder what the designers’ of 5e intentions were with these spells. Tiny hut used to hide the inhabitants, but did not prevent anyone from going into the hut or hurling missiles or spells into it. Rope Trick gained large utility in 5e from the addition of the hour long short rest – before it was just a way to hide.
From my reading, previous editions made resting in the dungeon of little use. For example, a 3rd edition cleric could only regain their spells once every 24 hours, at a specific time each day. A 1e spellcaster needed a “good night’s sleep” and 15 minutes per spell level per spell prepared – a character higher than the lowest levels would need many hours to prepare all their spells. You also regained much fewer hit points just from resting compared to 5e.
Did the designers of 5e intend you to use these spells to rest in the dungeon? Was resting in the dungeon an intended strategy, or an oversight?
@David
I have a similar question about the 2nd Level spell that gives you a bunch of berries for the day that completely feed you.
Yes it takes away a spell slot to do, but that spell slot essentially can get rid of any survival type gameplay a GM might have wanted to place into the game.
It sometimes feels the designers of 5E didn’t totally realise that some of their spells broke core elements of their game.
> Second, it will help to remember that spells cast to increase the likelihood of a successful rest are, in fact, resources being spent. (Even if spells can be ritually cast, they’re still chewing up a prepared spell.)
In 5E it’s even worse because wizards can cast their known rituals without needing to have them prepared, so once your wizard learns Tiny Hut it can be used every day for free.
@Xercies
It’s 1st level (Goodberry), so even worse.
A few corrections: The first is that Leo’s Tiny Hut is probably going to be cast by the wizard, so the wizard wouldn’t need it prepared. He’d just need it in his spell book.
Second, objects within the interior can pass through the barrier.. Objects like arrows. A well placed LTH is going to be hard to just surround or trap if the party is shooting arrows out from their one-way Wall of Force.
Yes, there might be ways to get around that too, but the LTH can be a tough nut to crack, especially if enemies aren’t quite sure how it works.
As a DM, I can also see the problems with the bad guys using it to set up nigh-impenetrable choke points.
@David
> I wonder what the designers’ of 5e intentions were with these spells.
I would say probably yes. Sure, it sounds really strange: did they really intend for Leomund’s Tiny Hut to make you immune to asteroid strikes? But I go by analogy with Spider Climb. I thought for sure they just flubbed the wording with Spider Climb.
Spider Climb used to say “The subject can climb and travel on vertical surfaces or even traverse ceilings as well as a spider does. The affected creature must have its hands free to climb in this manner. It cannot use the run action while climbing.”
You know, like Spider-Man.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0145487/mediaviewer/rm3632146944/
The restriction on running is because the technical difference between walking and running is whether both feet leave the ceiling at the same time:
https://www.webmd.com/fitness-exercise/difference-between-walking-and-running
> When you walk, you have one foot on the ground at all times. When you run, you’re in the air during each stride.
It’s magic, in theory Spider-Man could be allowed to run across the ceiling, but he’d look silly, so he can’t.
The 5e Spider Climb says the subject “gains the ability to move up, down, and across vertical surfaces and upside down along ceilings, while leaving its hands free.” I thought for sure they just flubbed the wording when trying to “simplify” by cramming everything into one sentence. Obviously they still meant the same thing, right? What they were trying to say is that, while leaving its hands free, the subject gains the ability to move up, down, and across vertical surfaces and upside down along ceilings.
But according to a D&D Beyond staffer, they really did intend for Spider-Man to sprint across the ceiling.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/dungeons-dragons-discussion/rules-game-mechanics/27341-spider-climb
My first instinct would be that they just wanted to prevent PCs attacking out of a Tiny Hunt, and flubbed the wording. My first instinct would be that they shorted the duration of Rope Trick specifically to prevent resting in it, and the people writing the short-rest rules weren’t talking to the people writing the Rope Trick rules. But going by analogy with Spider Climb, it seems more likely that, for whatever reason, they really did intend what they wrote.
@Xercies
> I have a similar question about the 2nd Level spell that gives you a bunch of berries for the day that completely feed you.
Now, that one isn’t a 5e thing, food and water have been de-emphasized in literally every single edition change. It’s true that 5e made Goodberry more powerful, by doubling the number of berries per casting and allowing a single berry to feed a horse (if you have horses). But 5e was only continuing the trend-line.
https://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/7632/roleplaying-games/the-subtle-shifts-in-play
Uh, sorry to be a pain, but RAW says rituals do _not_ require a spell slot. :-\ Per the PHB, top of page 202, “It also doesn’t expend a spell slot, which means the
ritual version of a spell can’t be cast at a higher level.”
@David In AD&D the way we used Rope Trick was primarily as a poor wizard’s Fly. Something interesting on the ceiling 40 feet overhead? Rope Trick anchors the rope and we can climb up and check it out.
Another option was for evading pursuit. Get into a room, lock the door, and cast Rope Trick; by the time the orcs finish breaking the door down we’ve climbed up the rope and pulled it in after us and they figure we must have run out one of the other doors….
@Rabit: The word “slot” does not appear in the post. It actually would be nice if 5E had coined a term of art for referring to the not-a-slot occupied by a spell on the spellcaster’s current list of prepared spells.
If you check page 114 of the PHB under the right column heading for Wizard ritual casting, it says “You don’t need to have the spell prepared”. So a ritually cast Tiny Hut uses zero party resources if cast by a Wizard.
“large part of strategically conquering an active dungeon is NOT allowing all the denizens of the dungeon to attack you at the same time.”
But what should you do, if all the denizens attack the PCs at the same time, and then the PCs come out victorious? Now you have mostly empty lair with some traps and non-active monsters here and there, and exploration of such dungeon can be very dull, but also cannot be complitly avoided.
@Xercies
Regarding Goodberry, prior to 5th Edition it required “a handful of freshly-picked berries” – it enchanted berries but didn’t conjure them out of nothingness. And the “freshly-picked” requirement meant you couldn’t just carry a bunch of berries with you and turn them into full meals every day.
So this limited the utility of the spell to places and seasons where berries grow – not in the winter, not in deserts or on the ocean, not underground, etc. Plus you have to take time out to forage for the berries. (My ruling was if you were just looking for a handful of berries for the spell, it took half the time of a normal foraging check. But again, you could only do it where berries were plausibly available.)
Oh, and it also only enchanted 2d4 berries, so with a bad roll – or even an average one with a large party, one casting wasn’t going to be enough to feed the party.
These are EXCELLENT thoughts on what dungeon denizens can do when the PCs aren’t busy stopping them. I love having an active series of challenges. Keeps the story moving and the players thinking.
@Angon
Clearing the dungeon in one big combat is pretty hard, not imposible if the party is considerably more powerful than the regular denizens… but at that point, intelligent monsters aren’t going to throw their lives at the party just because.
Some monsters wouldn’t enter a big melee in the first place, the “predators” of the dungeon like ettercaps, gricks or otyughs. They live to hunt weak prey, not “defend territory”.
Others creatures are going to hardly bother about what’s going on in the rest of the dungeon. This are the oozes, fungus, construcs and non-intelligent undead.
Smart but weak creatures are going to plan some sort of way to escape, and if that’s not posible, they are going to bargaing. Whatever trap they have, they will use to give themselves some extra time to get away with their belongings.
Even dumb creatures are going to use some sort of plan when things turn bad for them. For example, an orc might have Intelligence 7, but they know that people from the surface can’t see well in darkness, while they have no sort of problem with their darkvision. They know the place better than the adventurers, so they can retreat while setting the torches of. They can plan ambushes and pincer attacks using hidden passages. This aren’t great feats of intelligence, even gorillas do this sorts of things.
@14 Also, if an intelligent species like goblins are attacked by a group of PCs that are clearly superior in battle, they’re probably more likely to retreat and barricade than they are to swarm the party en masse.
@Alberek and Wyvern
Thanks for your replies!
But if I clearly understand the difference between the lair-type dungeons and the megadungeons, problem still remains. Of course, the difference is vague, so your advice is helpfull for more megadungeon-like lairs.
1. I do not mean, that defeated denizens are totally massacred, some can surrender, run away or retreat. But if they were defeated when fighting en masse, then there is, probably, no hope to fight again after first defeat, losses and wounds.
2. I do not think, that in a lair of orcs or bandits there is place for some independent “predator” like ettercap or even monstrous oozes. The main denizens of the lair probably want their home territory to be safe, so they should drove out any independend dangerous creatures.
3. Ambushes and barricades are great, but if denizens have enough time to plan ambush or build barricade, they probably also have time to group together – and again, if PCs are victorious in this battle, the dungeon becomes empty of any denizens, ready to fight PCs, and the exploration without risk of combat can be boring.
Of course, the GM can probably just make denizens of the lair sugnificantly stronger, so they can not be defeated by PCs en masse. But this is an interesting side effect of using the adversary roster, which did not come to my mind. The standart dungeon with 20 rooms and three orcs in each second room becomes dungeon with 20 rooms and 30 orcs in one room, and if the PCs can defeat 30 orcs, other 19 rooms will be empty and boring.
@16 A barricade doesn’t necessarily have to be constructed in advance. I ran a one-shot adventure involving an assault on a dungeon lair. The goblins in the kitchen, when they hear the sounds of battle at the entryway, will tip over tables for cover and make ranged attacks on the PCs if they enter. If the goblin guards at the entrance are overwhelmed, the survivors will attempt to retreat — some to the kitchen, and some to the deeper parts of the lair, to warn their boss. Meanwhile, if the goblins in the boss’s chambers are tipped off about the assault, they stay put and ready an ambush. Otherwise, the PCs can catch them by surprise. Either way, they’re not joining in the battle at the entrance.
The point is, there’s no reason to assume that the automatic response to a threat will be to either all group together in one place, or vacate the lair entirely. There are other options that make sense tactically *and* are better for the pacing of the game (and that don’t risk overwhelming the PCs with more enemies than they can handle).
Relating to your second point, there are plenty of ways to allow for stationary monsters that make sense. In the lair I mentioned, one of the rooms was haunted by a ghost. Other lairs might have a resident otyugh that’s allied with the inhabitants (they feed it their waste, and in return it doesn’t eat them), or pets such as wolves that are chained up, or constructs or summoned creatures that guard a specific location.
One other spell that I realized has a great deal of potential in certain situations: Water Breathing.
It’s a ritual available to wizards and druids that lasts eight hours without concentration. Given a pond or similar body of water, it can simplify hiding dramatically (but make sure spellbooks, scrolls, and other vulnerable items are secured in a bag of holding or similar).
In 1E the minimum rest time to regain spells was basically a short rest that only benefits spellcasters. 4 hrs plus 15 min per spell level memorized and only for first or second level spells. If the team went with light spellcasting (saving the big spells for big events) they could go further and fights were tilted in favor of non-spellcasters. The spell casters were also left out for the entire process of dealing with random encounters, letting non-spellcasters shine. Part of 1EAD&D’s fight smarter not harder philosophy.