GM: Okay, the orc stabs Derek’s paladin. Let’s see… We’re on… 17. Anyone on 17…?
16…?
15…?
14…?
Julia: I’m on 14!
GM: Okay, the goblins are, too. What’s your Dexterity score?
Julia: 12.
GM: You’ll go first.
(a minute later)
GM: Anyone on 13? How about 12?
Don’t be this guy.
If you’ve never experienced this at the table, you might find it hard to believe that this is a thing that actually happens, but it’s surprisingly common. I constantly find myself playing in games like this at conventions. I’ve even seen it happen in games using a VTT, which I find particularly baffling since it’s usually pretty trivial to set these up to auto-track initiative results.
It seems that for some people this is just the way they think RPGs are supposed to work.
The problem, of course, is pacing. Or, rather, the complete lack of it. In addition to wasting huge swaths of time with this inane call-and-response ritual, it also completely disrupts any sense of flow or build in the combat encounter. Each action becomes an isolated island floating in a vast sea of numeric chanting.
It’s also prone to mistakes and confusion, as calls are missed or initiative check results are forgotten.
WRITE IT DOWN
The solution, of course, is to simply write down the group’s initiative results, sorting them into a list so that you can tell in a single glance whose turn is next.
This list not only eliminates the dead time of the call-and-response, it can also unlock other techniques for improving the pace of your combat encounters. For example, it allows you to put players on deck.
GM: Derek, you’re up. Julia, you’re on deck.
This lets the player know that it’s time to figure out exactly what they want to do, making it far more likely, when their turn arrives, that they’ll be ready to jump straight into action.
(The advanced technique is that you don’t always need to do this, as you’ll learn how to read the table and know when upcoming players need the cue to refocus. With some groups you may even be able to build on this by having player pre-roll their attacks and so forth, further improving the pace and focus of play.)
Of course, in some roleplaying games it won’t be necessary to write down initiative scores at all. For example, in the Infinity roleplaying game I designed, the PCs always go first (in any order they choose), but the NPCs can “jump” up and interrupt their actions if the GM spends a meta-currency called Heat. The only thing you need to keep track of in that system is which characters have gone on the current turn.
In other RPGs, however, writing down initiative may be easier said than done. To take an extreme example, consider Feng Shui, which uses shot-based initiative in which:
- Characters roll their initiative and that is the Shot in which they take their first action of the round, starting with the highest Shot.
- Each action has a shot cost, which is subtracted from the character’s current Shot value, creating a new Shot value.
- When the round counts down to that Shot, the character can then take their next action, subtracting the shot cost, and repeating until all characters have hit Shot 0 and the round ends.
It seems as if this system would basically require the GM to count down, right? Who’s going on Shot 18? Who’s going on Shot 17? Who’s going on Shot 16? And so forth.
But all that’s really required is a different form of recordkeeping.
This is, in fact, why Feng Shui includes a shot counter: a physical track that can be used, in combination with counters or miniatures, to keep track of which characters are acting on which shot. In practice, this counter should be placed on the table in full view of the players, allowing everyone to see at a glance the sequence of upcoming actions.
(See Feng Shui: Using the Shot Counter for a longer discussion of advanced techniques this tool can also unlock.)
GM DON’T #16.1: DON’T WRITE ANYTHING DOWN
Flipping things around, initiative is not the only part of a roleplaying game where you can run into these inefficiencies. Pay attention to any interaction where you’re repeatedly asking the players to deliver the same piece of information over and over again, and then eliminate that interaction by proactively recording the information so that you don’t have to ask for it.
Armor Class in D&D is a common example of this. How often are you asking your players what their AC is while resolving attacks? If it’s more than once a session (at most), it’s probably too often.
A good place to record this information would be a Post-It swap note for your GM screen, putting it literally at your fingertips whenever you need it.
There are, however, a couple of exceptions to this that are worth noting.
First, any value that is frequently shifting during play, since this increases both the hassle of bookkeeping and the likelihood of error. A technique that can work here, however, is to enlist the players’ help by making them responsible for keeping the reference up to date: This might be a tent card that sits in front of each player with the relevant values. Or, in a VTT, it might be a shared note or file that everyone can keep updated.
Second, you don’t want to accidentally preempt mechanics or abilities that allow the players to react to specific actions, particularly if it might modify the value in question. (“What’s your AC?”, for example, also doubles as a convenient notification that a PC is being attacked and has the opportunity to activate their salamander cloak.) You can frequently route around this by simply being aware of the issue and making sure to include the appropriate prompts without the extraneous numerical exchange, but it’s definitely worth being aware of the potential issue.
FURTHER READING
Random GM Tip: Collecting Initiative
An additional benefit to knowing numbers like AC is the ability to avoid referencing them directly. You can just tell the player they got hit and how much damage they’re taking. The real bonus is this makes reactions like the shield spell feel more like part of the world. It was always annoying to me how the spell only ever got pulled out when the player knew it would succeed, but by eliminating numbers from the conversation at all using that sort of AC boosting reaction becomes more of a gamble, something likely saved for when its needed most as opposed to just a rote strategy.
This is probably a specific personal manifestation of my ADHD, but I always find the process of writing down six to eight initiative counts in order the most difficult part in running games, and the one that causes the most friction for me by far.
It is a fairly simple mental task, but when the players are chattering excitedly about how they are going to start the combat that will begin any moment now, it becomes extremely difficult for me to do.
It’s the biggest accessability barrier I have when running games.
Just as a response to the ADHD comment: what really helps me is to ask everybody to roll and then i just map out a vertical line running from 25 (top) to 0 (bottom). I then roll call everyone and put their names besides their point on the line. I add their AC to it, too. Because I only enumerate every 5th position I might sometimes mess up the difference between 13 and 14 if I lose track, but that’s no biggie. This approach is _very_ light on working memory.
Nitpick to a perfectly cromulent post: I think the double “don’t” in the title invites confusion; seeing the title in my RSS feed, I imagined this was going to enjoin GMs to *not* write down initiative. Maybe “DM don’t list #16: failing to write down initiative” or the like?
Unrelated: looking forward to reading your book this week! Assuming the shipping info is accurate.
A trick I use for the initiative (that I’ve read somewhwre, I don’t remember where), is to simply take a sheet of paper, write down 20 to 1 (usually in ink), then write the name of the characters beside their initiative score (usually with a pencil I can erase). It makes thing soooo much easyer. I juste need to go down line by line. If I know there will be 2 or 3 fight this session, I can ask them to roll multiple initiatives and just split my sheet with the different score. So column 1 will be the initiative for the fist fight, colomn 2 for the second fight, etc.
I didn’t realize Feng Shui used that system when I cobbled together my own virtually identical system. And as for all the writing down n stuff (you advice here is spot on of course) doesn’t anybody else use a spreadsheet? I’ve been using one for combat for about three years now. Game prep involves making sure the PC state are correct and setting up a few expected encounters. When I call for an initiative roll I go around the table once asking for each PC’s results and enter them in a cell. The sheet then highlights the next three (green, yellow and red) so I can pre-call: “Kirkas, you’re up, Dakora is on deck and Thulmar is in the hole.” If I only call two they KNOW the monsters are soon in the mix. Kirkas takes his turn performing either a move, action, or bonus action. I enter how long it took (usually between 1 and 4 ticks.) The spreadsheet updates, reduces his count, and highlights my top three again.
I guess my question is: why shouldn’t I be using my laptop “behind the screen” to optimize all of this?
@Yora: one possible split-the-difference approach would be to utilize the (deprecated) count-down system for the first combat round, and as figures act you write them down in your list along with their initiative. That way after the first round of combat you’ve got your list set, and you don’t have to cope with everyone at the table shouting random numbers at you in no particular order.
Group initiative rolled every round is by a mile the best system I’ve used. The players get a minute at the start of the round to discuss strategy and they choose which order they take thier actions in the round. Everyone gets to do thier cool thing, sometimes twice in a row, and it runs fast because you’re not keeping track of anything.
These tips are useless. Real DMs and Players would know this by reading the mandatory rules required for actual play. This seems for the Posers playing “pretend elf time with pizza at the table,” and those aren’t “people” that could comprehend this post.
If they can’t be bothered to read the rules, they aren’t going to read your tips.
So who is this for?
@Backcountry164 proves my point. That “person” isn’t playing D&D if they’re using group initiative. No edition of D&D has had group initiative.
What you’re describing is for role-playing focused TTRPG like Burn Bryte where nothing matters and everybody wins every session regardless of mechanics. D&D is a tactical TTRPG, and any assertion otherwise is a blatant lie and disrespectful towards Dave and Gary that invented the game modeled after Naval combat simulations.
Stop ruining games because you’re lazy. Do the work and you’ll get better results than you’d ever imagined. First step is reading the rules. I can’t imagine how horrible a game must be where everybody gets to freeze time for minutes while telepathically communicating before everyone acts as a unified hive mind.
Any suggestion other than the most optimal option within the rules is horrible advice, and since this site has a bevy of Posers as “authors” it’s not surprising bad advice is being given.
Anything you say that contradicts the author of this “article” will be taken down immediately. He’s literally watching posts and deleting comments he doesn’t like.
Hey bro, since I’m talking directly to just you now, how about you pickup the Dungeon Master’s Guide and give it a read? Tip from an actual pro to a Poser.
@Yora: That really messes with my ADHD, too – at the start of a fight, there’s so much going on that juggling those numbers is one thing too many. That’s why I really love another piece of Justin’s advice: roll initiative at the END of the previous combat.
He talks about this in Random GM Tips: Running Combat, or the Youtube video Quick GM Tip: Roll Initiative Last. I highly recommend checking one of those out, it’s a low-key game changer.
For each of my players I’ve made an index card folded over into a tent that I hang on my DM screen. It has their character’s name (and if I’m being fancy, an illustration), and I can put useful info like AC on the DM side if I want. I print out similar hangers for enemies, with an illustration on the player-facing side and stats on my side. When we go into initiative, I just arrange the hangers in initiative order. (I do it so it’s left to right for the players and right to left for me.) Everybody always knows when they’re on deck, and the players can actually help me keep track of the initiative sequence. Even out of combat i leave the PCs up; especially early in a campaign it helps me (and maybe them) remember their characters’ names, and it’s a reminder of any NPCs who are present with them. It’s hands down my best innovation.
This is how I do it, works wonders for me:
– At the beginning of the session, hand each player a blank index card and a water-erasable sharpie, and ask them to write their character’s name.
– When asking everybody to roll initiative, tell each player to write their initiative on their card and then put them in the middle. Simultaneously I roll for NPCs and write their initiatives on their own cards.
– I sort the cards in order in the middle of the table. Turn 1, go!
– When the combat is over, everybody gets their card back and erase the temporary notes on the card with a cloth.
I love that this:
– Is quick, as it maximally parallelizes rolling and counting.
– Offloads my limited space behind the screen, where I need dice, encounter notes, monster statblocks, and all manner of stuff laid out.
– Is trivially easy to rearrange turn order for games where that can happen (where you can delay your turn and such).
Furthermore, I:
– Note damage inflicted on NPCs on their index card.
– Note conditions and effects on that character’s card. Either writing directly on the cards, or adding additional small post-its. I’ve entertained the idea of purchasing tokens with various symbols (or reusing from board games, like Gloomhaven), but while that would “look nicer”, there’s a clear advantage of having it in text instead of just a symbol so I dunno.
Anyway having conditions visible for everyone helps tremendously with awareness and remembering them.
If you don’t have blank card-stock and wet-marker available, of course simple scraps of paper, pencils, and erasers will work nearly just as well.
@Real D&D Player: On the off chance that you’re not just a mediocre troll, there are a few things you might want to learn so that you don’t look like such an ignorant bumpkin in the future.
1. Group initiative was the default method of initiative from 1974-1999 in D&D, and the only method of initiative in several editions of the game. It’s what both Arneson and Gygax used in the games they ran.
2. D&D is not the only crunchy RPG that exists. Lots of the other options ALSO use group initiative (and other forms of initiative, too).
3. If you weren’t spamming mediocre comments filled with disinformation, maybe your comments wouldn’t get identified as spam and need to be manually approved.
@Yora: I’ve got another article coming out next week, actually, that talks about how to structure the collection of initiative and similar group checks at the table in a way that’s not so overwhelming. Not sure it’ll be specifically applicable to ADHD, but it might help!
I just have extra dice for initiative and have the players leave their initiative die in front of them so I can just do a visual scan of their rolls and mine behind a screen. It has saved me so much time.
Group initiative is another option, or initiative by Dex, but I have found players to complain about that more than not.
@Justin – I’m not the troll commenter, but thanks for replying to them anyway, as TIL group initiative used to be in D&D.
I’m not familiar with older versions so would love to hear a comparison of stuff like this between D&D versions. It’s fascinating to see how stuff has ever led over time.
I love using an initiative tracker; the one I’ve got is a magnetic dealie with a mobile tab for each player, with their names on it. I’ve already written in the 1-30 initiative chart, so I just call out each name and place that player tab in the appropriate spot. Done.
It’s so much faster and easier than trying to sort numbers on the fly while writing them in pencil. What a hassle. (And counting down is even worse! I’ve seen it live, and it was painful.)
I use a clothes pin for each PC and monster and clip them to the DM screen so everyone can see who’s up next. Use wooden clothes pins and write each PC’s name or character name on one. It also helps to use different colored markers for each PC and another for mobs. Then reorder them the next time initiative is rolled.
Ditch normal initiative. Have each side of combat roll a d6
Highest goes first. Ties mean actions happen at the same time. Players choose what order they act in. Keep it simple.
I strongly agree with the other commenters who recommend using pre-made fillable initiative tables. If you haven’t tried it, it may not be obvious why this helps. But the slow part of doing initiative isn’t collecting the information, it’s sorting everyone’s relative position once you have the numbers.
What I do at my table is just come to each session with a stack of printouts with two columns: a column numbered from 25 to 0, and a blank column where I can write in names. I roll and fill in initiative for NPCs while players are rolling their initiatives, gather the player’s numbers from them, and then can immediately start combat without having to sort anything. The whole process takes less than 15 seconds.
Savage Worlds solves this by using a deck of cards for initiative. Each round, the GM deals a card to every player and NPC (or group of identical NPCs), and the round starts with the highest. Certain feats give you bonuses to initiative, like an extra card, or a re-deal on low cards. When someone is dealt a Joker, they get a special bonus for the round and the GM shuffles the deck.
It’s such an improvement over dice that I’m kind of amazed it isn’t the RPG standard.
One of my favorite things about playing (D&D 5e) on Roll20 is that players can just click their token, click the “Initiative” button on their character sheet, and it gets automatically added to the turn tracker. One of many reasons I don’t think I’ll ever return to running in-person games.
That being said, I never really understood why tracking initiative was so hard for people in-person. In the groups I’ve played in, we usually designate a player to do it so the DM can manage other things. Albeit, with that method the players will know when the monsters are taking their turns, which may be a turnoff for some and in certain scenarios. I do sympathize with the those with ADHD who struggle with it.
I’ve also seen a few people express the sentiment that stopping to roll and record initiative at the start of a scene breaks the flow of the game, though I don’t feel that way personally. Do you have any suggestions for using initiative in D&D for those who do feel that way?
Also wondering if you have any experience running AD&D with speed factors and casting times. In that case, you have to record the original initiative score as well as a modified score depending on the PCs’ and monsters’ intended actions, with might change each round depending on what action is being taken. Do you have any experience doing it that way? I’m considering running AD&D again and haven’t decided if I want to use those rules (although it seems mandatory for spell casters when casting times are given almost exclusively as initiative modifiers).
Since I started using a physical initiative tracker on the top of my DM screen, I can’t believe that anyone plays without one. All my players have a little symbol I 3D printed them, I’ve got some generic ones for monsters, and then I’ve got an arrow that goes along saying whose turn it is and who’s next.
Like a lot of people here, my dyspraxia/ADHD makes putting the list of numbers in order once I’ve been given them, but I only have to do that once, then everyone can forget their number and look at the tracker.
Before my group switched to using a virtual tabletop, I would pre-populate a spreadsheet with the monsters prepped for the session as well as my players stat blocks. There was also a column for initiative, which I pre-filled for the monsters by rolling ahead of time (and yes, I actually pulled out a physical d20 and rolled it for every monster, or used a physics engine based dice program on my phone).
Typically I kept track of AC, saves (PF2, so there were only three), movement speed, and any resistances the monster might have, along with a column for current effects on the monster like Frightened or Raised Shield. I could then copy the monster’s stat blocks and my player’s stat blocks to a separate section of the sheet, fill in player initiative, and have it automatically sort the rows based on initiative.
I still had to reference the monster’s statblock for the actual combat (which I copied into my reference documents off of the online archive), but moment to moment it was much easier for me to tell a player if their attack was successful or if they got hit by something. But it helped a lot in the moment to offload the task of organizing everything to past-me and a computer instead of having to frantically write down everything important about the fight.
Use MS Excel.
I have a pre-made spreadsheet with columns for player name, character name, Initiative Roll, and Conditions.
Have everyone tell you their Initiative order as you go around the table and record them one at a time (e.g. 7, 18, 4, 12, 23). Then, filter and sort the Initiative column by Descending and boom, you’ve got an Initiative order tracker: 23, 18, 12, 7, 4).
Make the tracker (minus the rolls) before playing so it’s ready to go. Plus, you’ll know what enemies your players will face that session so you can add them in beforehand too. I use this every time and it hasn’t failed me yet. It saves your place between sessions, tracks order, Conditions (e.g. Taako is up next, but currently grappled) and allows you to set up Combat quickly and efficiently.
I have a player roster that I fill out/have my players update when things change. The latest iteration of it has a column for every character; the rows include:
* Player name
* Character name
* Alignment
* Race/Class
* Patron Deity
* Darkvision?
* Low-light vision?
* Track feat?
* Trapfinding?
* Listen/Search/Spot modifiers
* Will save modifier
* Languages known
* Special (favored enemies, special senses, immunities)
These are the things that often come up where I will want to know the answer without asking the player at the time. It lets me roll certain skill checks or Will saves without tipping the player(s), I can tell at a glance which characters get a free attempt to detect a secret/hidden door, or who can see beyond the radius of the torchlight, and so on.
I don’t include AC because I found that there are so many variables (what defensive spells are up, is the target aware/flat-footed/flanked/whatever, does shield or armor bonus apply, and so on) there would usually have to be an interaction with the player anyway. But if I did include it, I’d note base/flat-footed/touch AC at a minimum.
@Gumbo We roll for initiative at the end of our session. Record it and it’s ready to go when you eventually need it. Then, AFTER a combat/encounter/break when there’s a lull in the action have the players roll again. Record it. It’s ready to go when you need it.
Also we use a light version of speed factor/casting time but it’s not for everybody. Our order of play? High initiative goes first. You can take move, take an action or a bonus action. Accounted for on the spreadsheet which automatically highlights who’s next. When you’re up again you can take a remaining activity. Lather, rinse, repeat. Sometimes this means charging right into a monsters attack. Sometimes it means charging in and dealing the kill shot. Similar to what @Ezra mentions above.
Some discussion on DMsEscritoire.blogspot.com
I thought writing down initiative was a standard. I’ve used a few methods but honestly I just use notebook paper because it is simple and easy for me to do without a bunch of extras. I’ve never played with anyone who didn’t record init.
Though using straight dex I don’t like we don’t need another reason to make dex more valuable
Haha, I’m totally guilty of constantly asking my players what their AC is.
While I frequently default to group initiative each round, another method that worked well for me was to have all monsters go together, and let players roll their individual initiatives each round with modifiers against an announced DC. To avoid having to write anything down, I give everyone a card which they flip up if they beat the DC and go before the monsters, and flip down if they go after – it allows for quick adjustment between rounds.
Another initiative method I’m on the fence about is just to have opponents roll simultaneously against each other, and the higher attack roll goes off first. But that requires a significant change in procedural mindset: the DM needs to be more deliberate to telegraph actions so players can make informed decisions.
Heh, my ADHD brain fails at writing down a ton of things too. What I do is
..have the players help me out! One of my table’s “player jobs” is someone to keep track of initiatives for me. We have a white board and dry erase markers, and one player writes down and orders initiative on the board for me. I insert the enemies when they come up with a magnet on the board.
I’m also surprised at not writing it down being around. I’ve run into it myself. But I’ve been using dry erase whiteboards for my in-person games forever and it seems so basic.
Ben @21, you may well know this but you’ve (almost) described AD&D initiative – the wrinkle you skipped is that each side uses the *other* side’s initiative roll as their ‘active’ phase in the melee round (10 phases in a minute long melee round of course, like Gary intended).
So the high roll wins the initiative and they ‘naturally’ get to go first because the losing roll is always going to be lower – and if they win by enough then the wizard will be able to get that cool spell off before the other side have a chance to interrupt the casting…